AOE3 Forums

The best unit in the game is the dopplesoldner. Jap Samurai come close to them but they do not beat them. At the forth age dopples are unstopable. They cost less then a ronin but are better then ronin and more cost effective. People think they are not in any great amount but they dont need to be because 20 dopples can kill 40 pikman 40 skirmishers ans still have enough left to kill 20 halbadeirs. People have to consider cards and that they make dopples the best in the whole game. There are 7 cards to upgrading dopples. no other nation has any guy that has that much put into them. If your skirmishers are behind walls they tear the walls down with there 150 seige attack. If they are out gunned they kill the infrantry with their times 2 and murder the calvery with their times 3 with a 78 attack power all together. They are unstopable.

A smart opponent in this situation would probably train Horse Artillery, who should cut through the Doppels when u have about 15-20. Also, they can try a hit and run strategy, as if u use Solingen Steel (which by the sounds of it, u are), they can move at twice their speed, especially after Trunion at the Advanced Arsenal. Plus, they could easily move these in to destroy the barracks that u have placed outside ur opponents base, and could easily flank them. Lancers with the Unction Missionaries are also very effective, dealing 280 damage a pop, and Mahout Lancers and any other Lancers u can think of should have that much of a problem, if the two groups are of equal cost.

Also, if someone has Skirmishers or Cassadors, they would easily be fast enough to hit and run from ur Solingen Doppels. U could either stay there getting killed or chase them until u get killed. Samurais, on the other hand, are a lot faster than them after Sword Saint, and can easily be trained from a Diamyo, who can just run away afterwards. Although Samurais have slightly less combat ability, their increased speed and being trainable from a Diamyo makes them superior in a one on one game. With two Diamyos, u could easily get flanked, and the Doppels would not fast enough to pursue the threat. A Shogun could even train artillery to destroy any barracks u placed near the ambush sites.

Ill admit, i like Doppels, but i dont think that they are quite the best unit in the game. Although they are very good for the reasons u pointed out, a good tactician will easily be able to exploit their weaknesses.

Fully upgraded samurais are MUCH better than fully upgraded doppels (if they are both in the same age).. there is no way Doppelsoldners are the best unit in the game, think about all the other good units (dog soldiers, cuirassiers, samurais, ashigarus.. etc).

Are Hatamoto samurai not included in this? They deal something like 300 damage to Cav, and some rediculous amount of siege damage.

Finchie:

Fully upgraded samurais are MUCH better than fully upgraded doppels (if they are both in the same age).. there is no way Doppelsoldners are the best unit in the game, think about all the other good units (dog soldiers, cuirassiers, samurais, ashigarus.. etc).

No they're not much better, they're a little better as in a 1v1 between them the samurai would win, but the doppel has way more cards for it and an imperial doppel with all cards could kill a samurai no problem and still have enough helth to kill about 2 more. 

Dog soldiers, ashigarus, cuirassiers and skull knights all lose to doppels, I mean, ashigarus don't even perform better than a musk against doppels. Yeah horse artillery with some kind of meatshiel that would last lonbg enough would pwn them

Phoenixwi:

Finchie:

Fully upgraded samurais are MUCH better than fully upgraded doppels (if they are both in the same age).. there is no way Doppelsoldners are the best unit in the game, think about all the other good units (dog soldiers, cuirassiers, samurais, ashigarus.. etc).

No they're not much better, they're a little better as in a 1v1 between them the samurai would win, but the doppel has way more cards for it and an imperial doppel with all cards could kill a samurai no problem and still have enough helth to kill about 2 more. 

 

Naah, fully upgraded sams in Imperial can get up to about 75 hand attack, 700 HP, and much more speed than an Imperial Doppelsoldner..

Dog soldiers, ashigarus, cuirassiers and skull knights all lose to doppels, I mean, ashigarus don't even perform better than a musk against doppels. Yeah horse artillery with some kind of meatshiel that would last lonbg enough would pwn them

Dog soldiers, ashigarus, cuirassiers and skull knights are far more stronger than the units of the same type .. I'm not comparing them to how they fair against doppels in a fight.

 

Oh and the Iroquois Mantlet can get to 1200 HP in imperial, with 60 attack (way more with the attack dance) and 50% ranged resistance... and they can be 1 pop..

Finchie:

Phoenixwi:

Finchie:

Fully upgraded samurais are MUCH better than fully upgraded doppels (if they are both in the same age).. there is no way Doppelsoldners are the best unit in the game, think about all the other good units (dog soldiers, cuirassiers, samurais, ashigarus.. etc).

No they're not much better, they're a little better as in a 1v1 between them the samurai would win, but the doppel has way more cards for it and an imperial doppel with all cards could kill a samurai no problem and still have enough helth to kill about 2 more. 

 

Naah, fully upgraded sams in Imperial can get up to about 75 hand attack, 700 HP, and much more speed than an Imperial Doppelsoldner..

Dog soldiers, ashigarus, cuirassiers and skull knights all lose to doppels, I mean, ashigarus don't even perform better than a musk against doppels. Yeah horse artillery with some kind of meatshiel that would last lonbg enough would pwn them

Dog soldiers, ashigarus, cuirassiers and skull knights are far more stronger than the units of the same type .. I'm not comparing them to how they fair against doppels in a fight.

 

Oh and the Iroquois Mantlet can get to 1200 HP in imperial, with 60 attack (way more with the attack dance) and 50% ranged resistance... and they can be 1 pop..

An imperial doppel has 40 attack and 460 hitpoints without cards, meaning, as I said, the sam would win but with cards it has about 600 hp and about 80 attack.

50% ranged resistance is irrevelant against a doppel, and none of those units (Ashigarusm cuirs, skulls and dogs) come anywhere near being the best units. And I really, realyl doubt the iroquis mantlet, or the sam are that good, though I havent trested them in the editor yet.

EDIT: I just tested it in the editor, legendary mantlet gets 700 hp and 43 attack. Given what you just said I don't think we should take your word for the samurai attack and hitpoints... 

EDIT: I just tested it in the editor, legendary mantlet gets 700 hp and 43 attack. Given what you just said I don't think we should take your word for the samurai attack and hitpoints... 

 Scenario Editor? Well there's your problem... the mantlets have about 5 cards that effect them, hahaha...

And the samurai does get 75 attack and about 700 HP, test it in a supremacy vs a comp (starting in age1, so you get wonder bonuses)..

 

Mantlet:

[img=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9194/mantlet1qo9.th.jpg]

Samurai:

[img=http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3674/samurai1iz8.th.jpg]

(close enough )

Finchie:

EDIT: I just tested it in the editor, legendary mantlet gets 700 hp and 43 attack. Given what you just said I don't think we should take your word for the samurai attack and hitpoints... 

 Scenario Editor? Well there's your problem... the mantlets have about 5 cards that effect them, hahaha...

And the samurai does get 75 attack and about 700 HP, test it in a supremacy vs a comp (starting in age1, so you get wonder bonuses)..

 

Mantlet:

[img=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9194/mantlet1qo9.th.jpg]

Samurai:

[URL=http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=samurai1uy6.jpg][/URL

(close enough

 

Doppls are more usefull than samurai later game because you dont need to have aura bonus from wonders/daymo or shogun and are better against cavalry when you need to cover other units. 

Anyway both units lose against musks and jags(after patch they'll be ripped). 

If you compare all area damage infantry against each other then:

Skull knight>hatamoto>samurai>doppls 

Finchie:

EDIT: I just tested it in the editor, legendary mantlet gets 700 hp and 43 attack. Given what you just said I don't think we should take your word for the samurai attack and hitpoints... 

 Scenario Editor? Well there's your problem... the mantlets have about 5 cards that effect them, hahaha...

And the samurai does get 75 attack and about 700 HP, test it in a supremacy vs a comp (starting in age1, so you get wonder bonuses)..

 

Mantlet:

[img=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9194/mantlet1qo9.th.jpg]

Samurai:

[img=http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3674/samurai1iz8.th.jpg]

(close enough )

Yes and the doppel gets 7 cards, and both of these were tested without cards.