AOE3 Forums

Some humble observations...

The bonus to Ashigaru via cards has changed from 40/0 to 15/15. I would like to take a moment to show how 15/15 > 40/0. Obviously in age2 this isn't the case, but beyond age2 Ashigaru are stronger than ever.

If we look purely at cards->

Type A:
170 * 1.2= 204
26 * 1.6 = 41.6

Type B:
170 * 1.35 = 229.5
26 * 1.35 = 35.1

They both kill each other in 6 shots, so relative to itself, Ashigaru wasn't nerfed.

Against CiR skirms in age3, type B takes 4 to die and 6 to kill a skirm. Type A takes 3/5. This means that the Ashi now lasts longer vs skirms which means it has more opportunity to close the speed gap and counter cavalry under skirm fire.

Sure, Damage was nerfed which means that the Daimyo aura doesn't boost it as much. But the BIGGEST aura is the Shogun with 20% HP, so the difference in benefit isn't there, there was no nerf. If anything, Ashigaru are stronger the longer the game goes. In age2, yes, they were nerfed by 5% attack, but aside from that they're just as good if not better.

i entirely agree. nice job for balancing the ashis...not

and not to forget about the golden pavilion bonus too

It's stat boosters that work on current, and not base stats, that give ashi so much strength. Only the shogun (in age 4 too) boosts hp but daimyos, isolation, and GP all boost attack, so changing a card to hp instead of attack reduces the effects of all 3 of those while only boosting the age 4 shogun. You should take into account all stat boosters, not just cards.

The problem is that in age 2 many civs still don't have a proper musket-type counter while ashi only got 1 nerf in colonial vs both eco boosts. The age 2 card is what should have been changed to hp and, if possible, stuff like daimyos, shoguns, isolation, and GP should go off of base stats.

TheGroovyGuy:

It's stat boosters that work on current, and not base stats, that give ashi so much strength. Only the shogun (in age 4 too) boosts hp but daimyos, isolation, and GP all boost attack, so changing a card to hp instead of attack reduces the effects of all 3 of those while only boosting the age 4 shogun. You should take into account all stat boosters, not just cards.

The problem is that in age 2 many civs still don't have a proper musket-type counter while ashi only got 1 nerf in colonial vs both eco boosts. The age 2 card is what should have been changed to hp and, if possible, stuff like daimyos, shoguns, isolation, and GP should go off of base stats.

GP can do HP as well man. And HP + HP working off of a higher calculated stat is more potent than boosting damage. GP on HP + Shogun + 15% HP Card > GP on Dmg + Daimyo + 20% Attack card.

GP on hp I'm pretty sure gives a lower % than if on ranged attack and you didn't include isolation either. Most games don't last long enough for the shogun to matter, much less even make an appearance, while daimyos are available from age 2.

TheGroovyGuy:

GP on hp I'm pretty sure gives a lower % than if on ranged attack and you didn't include isolation either. Most games don't last long enough for the shogun to matter, much less even make an appearance, while daimyos are available from age 2.

I didn't include a lot of things because I was mainly comparing the difference between the card changes. Yes, the fact that Daimyo/shogun/GP all operate on the calculated values is ridiculous...

You get 15/10 from AA, 10/- from ISO, 40/- from cards, 20/20 from discipline- 85/30. Then because that percentile gets acted upon, 75*1.15 + 15 = 112.75% * 1.15 + 15 = 145/30. Is that right? ~64 Attack in age3? Sounds about right... (GP gives 15%/Daimyo gives 15% IIRC)

Type A
221 HP
64 Attack

15/10 AA, 10/- ISO, 15/15 cards, 20/20 disc- 60/45. 60 *1.15+15 = 84, 45 *1.1+10 = 60, 84/60. (GP gives 10% HP).

Type B (GP hp)
272 HP
48 Attack

ZOMG- Which one is better? Type B! While they kill each other in the same number of shots (IE- no relative nerf or boost), Type B performs the role of anti-cavalry better due to increased resilience vs RI AND it can take more hits while charging skirmishers.

Ashigaru were boosted, no matter how you look at it.

ya, i guess now we wait for the next patch?

i mean, uve made ur point, but u cant do anything about it, which sucks

the likely hood of ES ever fixing this is not very high, it will be too much work for em so they will just brush it under the carpet.

its simply sheer laziness, and or playing favorites 

Things to also included, Attack boosters from anything, other units, cards consult, also boost siege damage

daimyo boost each others stats as well 

daimyo are better then gerdnams, cheaper, and less pop consuming

they come from hc, and can be rebuilt once sent

certainly japan is still too strong, not only ashigaru.

if they want military, they can have 37 range att ashigaru in age2.

if they want eco, their eco is close to british.

Yeah, i truely do not understand how or why they got these boosts. Japan has the second or third best economy. Military wise, esp. i the second and third age is absurd. They have a strong quick rush and then can focus on the economy for 5 min. and still make a reasonable army. They are hard to raid with the first gold mine next to the TC and the food is always beside the Japanese TC.  wood choppers are the only villagers that can be raided and ashug. kill any small raiding party pretty fast. This is one of the best civs and i hate playing this OP civ.

I am french and never stop pumping out villagers and there eco and military is still better than mine. And FFing is to hard agianst them because you cannot build a big army so they slaughter that and then samuri just chop up the buildings before you can finish blinking.

Personally i feel even a higher ranked french player cannot beat the Japanese civ player even if he slips up here and there.