AOE3 Forums

Gene, you didnt get of what we were talking about, we were talking about make the rider riders have the same attack just with a slower ROF, not about increasing its ROF 2 times but its attack 2 times too...

Lol, I cant believe Ive only just found this thread...

Changes I agree with

Cuirassier- Best suggestion yet about them imo, except maybe the change to splash damage cap.

Rifle Rider- If any of u remember my "Those damn rifle riders" thread, then this is self explanatory...

Sowar- These units really arent cost effective at the moment...

Siege Eles- Also, these units give the Indians no anti infantry artillery, so perhaps some more splash damage or a small bonus against light infantry would be nice?

All outlaws- For all of the reasons u mentioned

Spies- Yeah, natives arent used much

Cassador- Does this mean that u can get them in Colonial?

Bolas- Yeah, these are UP too, but hardly ever used, so a significant boost would be good.

Tomahawks- Yeah, these units definitely deserve to be better...

Ashis- These are better than vet musks in colonial at the moment...

Grenadiers and Arsonists- Good idea, they are already lethal against strelets, but now they could be good enough to counter Wakinas or even full blown skirms...

Gatling Gun- Well, that ones just lazy development...

Catamarans- Rofl at fishing outlaws

Changes I dont agree with

Oprichniks, I think that nerfing their HP is ok, but if the attack is nerfed this much they should at least have larger bonuses towards villies and artillery, to compensate. Like 5x vs villies and 3.5x vs artillery. Otherwise, fine.

Mamelukes and Elmetis- Do the Elmetis get a bous against infantry? If so, then I retract this, but otherwise the Elmeti is much less cost effective than the Mameluke and is just generally weaker. Also, instead of moving mamelukes to Age 3, just move the shipment to Age 4, and give them an extra one to make it equal to the Elmetis shipment.

Zamburaks- These guys really arent used as much as they should, and imo removing the bonus against artillery will just make them even less popular.

Flamethrowers- And let the noobs win? Nah, this would completely stop anyone from training flamethrowers, as they could more easily standard rush against infantry. Also, then no one would train culverins against the chinese and make it easier to counter them in treaty games. Although, I agree in that the range should be increased, but the speed would be a bit OP for ranged infantry... keep it as 4 or 4.25 and increase the range to 14.

Aennas- Nah, lets keep the Aennas as they are, we dont want to start nerfing Iroquois.. If Aennas were nerfed again then this could seriously kill the Iroquois Option.

Flying Crow- The times are a bit silly, I think that 240, 200, 160, 120 woild be more balanced, if range were increased by 4 and the penalty vs cav removed..

Fire Junks- No grudge in general but in the Caravel scenario it would still take 2 to kill a Caravel...

Good list Ivan, keep up the good work!

What about the Tashunke prwoler unit? everybody says those guys are up for there cost and  microing them not worth it. I watched Smears strat with them and to me it didnt feel like it was worth it because you need to use all the cav upgrade cards plus new ways and you only use them when the other civ is booming and to use them at some good power u need like 8 or above but that costs lots. I dont know I need to get TAD to see the attack and and hitpoint upgrade in real time or if es can patch twcs : - )

GuitarHeroMatt:

Changes I dont agree with

Oprichniks, I think that nerfing their HP is ok, but if the attack is nerfed this much they should at least have larger bonuses towards villies and artillery, to compensate. Like 5x vs villies and 3.5x vs artillery. Otherwise, fine.

Mamelukes and Elmetis- Do the Elmetis get a bous against infantry? If so, then I retract this, but otherwise the Elmeti is much less cost effective than the Mameluke and is just generally weaker. Also, instead of moving mamelukes to Age 3, just move the shipment to Age 4, and give them an extra one to make it equal to the Elmetis shipment.

Zamburaks- These guys really arent used as much as they should, and imo removing the bonus against artillery will just make them even less popular.

Flamethrowers- And let the noobs win? Nah, this would completely stop anyone from training flamethrowers, as they could more easily standard rush against infantry. Also, then no one would train culverins against the chinese and make it easier to counter them in treaty games. Although, I agree in that the range should be increased, but the speed would be a bit OP for ranged infantry... keep it as 4 or 4.25 and increase the range to 14.

Aennas- Nah, lets keep the Aennas as they are, we dont want to start nerfing Iroquois.. If Aennas were nerfed again then this could seriously kill the Iroquois Option.

Flying Crow- The times are a bit silly, I think that 240, 200, 160, 120 woild be more balanced, if range were increased by 4 and the penalty vs cav removed..

Fire Junks- No grudge in general but in the Caravel scenario it would still take 2 to kill a Caravel...

Good list Ivan, keep up the good work!

Oprichniks- Ya I guess your right here, increasing their bonus if their attack is decreased seems fine to me.

Elmetis- Cmon matt, IMO, 4 bonus to infantry its something very powerfull, and they kill pretty good their own counter (HI), if you dont count it, its like if you compared lancers with hussars, and said lancers are UP just beacuse you didnt counted the fact that lancers make more damage to inf.

Zamburaks- They havent got 1, but in late game this guys are quite used a lot, the problem is, that they get one in upgrades, when they can get one with dessert terror card... Also cost effectivness has nothing to do with popularity...

Flamethrowers- Pfft, your change would overboost em, also, flamethowers supposed to have a very, but a very crappy range as historically as by game design, this change is even worse than to make em have stealth.

Aennas- OK its your opinion...

Flying crows- IMO, I thought in that change too, but the problem is, that still you would get em quite slow, I think that my time changes are better but oh well its your opinion. Also range shouldnt be increased, this artillery's range is supposed to be a bit low by design, actually if you see the art design of the whole unit, you will see that if the range would be increased it would be too stupid and unlogicall considering how it fires...

Its the same that if you added to a pikeman 4 of range...

Fire junk- Read what I said previously:

this guys do needs a boost, consdering the fact that it dies too fast, and it can be killed before it gets its objective. Example, 2 fire junks cost like 1 caravel, 2 fire junks can kill 1 caravel, however, they die too, but a caravel can also fish, and transport units, and have broadside attack, and attacks tons of times. A fire junk can be just trained fast and then die.

 

About other things you said:

GuitarHeroMatt:

Changes I agree with

Siege Eles- Also, these units give the Indians no anti infantry artillery, so perhaps some more splash damage or a small bonus against light infantry would be nice?

Cassador- Does this mean that u can get them in Colonial?

Catamarans- Rofl at fishing outlaws

Siege elephants- No, India already got gurhkas and mahouts, also changing the design of this unit would be just stupid, since to be a culverin that is good vs buildings its just the point of a siege elephants. Also, light infantry is supposed to ocunter siege elephants since light infantry are basically hussars, if increase the multiplier vs LI why not vs cavalry? Even though doing both things would be STUPID.

 Cassadors- No, just let em have colonial stats. Like the colonial stats of elephants or even the cahnge I suggested about cuirrs.

Catamaran Marathas- :P even villagers cant fish, why outlaws would do it? Also i think that I should have included this into outlaws, but then I thought that no because I am suggesting to balance just fire junks in the war ships section.  

Иван Грозный:

GuitarHeroMatt:

Changes I dont agree with

Oprichniks, I think that nerfing their HP is ok, but if the attack is nerfed this much they should at least have larger bonuses towards villies and artillery, to compensate. Like 5x vs villies and 3.5x vs artillery. Otherwise, fine.

Mamelukes and Elmetis- Do the Elmetis get a bonus against infantry? If so, then I retract this, but otherwise the Elmeti is much less cost effective than the Mameluke and is just generally weaker. Also, instead of moving mamelukes to Age 3, just move the shipment to Age 4, and give them an extra one to make it equal to the Elmetis shipment.

Zamburaks- These guys really arent used as much as they should, and imo removing the bonus against artillery will just make them even less popular.

Flamethrowers- And let the noobs win? Nah, this would completely stop anyone from training flamethrowers, as they could more easily standard rush against infantry. Also, then no one would train culverins against the chinese and make it easier to counter them in treaty games. Although, I agree in that the range should be increased, but the speed would be a bit OP for ranged infantry... keep it as 4 or 4.25 and increase the range to 14.

Aennas- Nah, lets keep the Aennas as they are, we dont want to start nerfing Iroquois.. If Aennas were nerfed again then this could seriously kill the Iroquois Option.

Flying Crow- The times are a bit silly, I think that 240, 200, 160, 120 woild be more balanced, if range were increased by 4 and the penalty vs cav removed..

Fire Junks- No grudge in general but in the Caravel scenario it would still take 2 to kill a Caravel...

Good list Ivan, keep up the good work!

Elmetis- Cmon matt, IMO, 4 bonus to infantry its something very powerfull, and they kill pretty good their own counter (HI), if you dont count it, its like if you compared lancers with hussars, and said lancers are UP just beacuse you didnt counted the fact that lancers make more damage to inf.

Zamburaks- They havent got 1, but in late game this guys are quite used a lot, the problem is, that they get one in upgrades, when they can get one with dessert terror card... Also cost effectivness has nothing to do with popularity...

Flamethrowers- Pfft, your change would overboost em, also, flamethowers supposed to have a very, but a very crappy range as historically as by game design, this change is even worse than to make em have stealth.

Aennas- OK its your opinion...

Flying crows- IMO, I thought in that change too, but the problem is, that still you would get em quite slow, I think that my time changes are better but oh well its your opinion. Also range shouldnt be increased, this artillery's range is supposed to be a bit low by design, actually if you see the art design of the whole unit, you will see that if the range would be increased it would be too stupid and unlogicall considering how it fires...

Its the same that if you added to a pikeman 4 of range...

Fire junk- Read what I said previously:

this guys do needs a boost, consdering the fact that it dies too fast, and it can be killed before it gets its objective. Example, 2 fire junks cost like 1 caravel, 2 fire junks can kill 1 caravel, however, they die too, but a caravel can also fish, and transport units, and have broadside attack, and attacks tons of times. A fire junk can be just trained fast and then die.

About other things you said:

GuitarHeroMatt:

Changes I agree with

Siege Eles- Also, these units give the Indians no anti infantry artillery, so perhaps some more splash damage or a small bonus against light infantry would be nice?

Cassador- Does this mean that u can get them in Colonial?

Catamarans- Rofl at fishing outlaws

Siege elephants- No, India already got gurhkas and mahouts, also changing the design of this unit would be just stupid, since to be a culverin that is good vs buildings its just the point of a siege elephants. Also, light infantry is supposed to ocunter siege elephants since light infantry are basically hussars, if increase the multiplier vs LI why not vs cavalry? Even though doing both things would be STUPID.

 Cassadors- No, just let em have colonial stats. Like the colonial stats of elephants or even the cahnge I suggested about cuirrs.

Catamaran Marathas- :P even villagers cant fish, why outlaws would do it? Also i think that I should have included this into outlaws, but then I thought that no because I am suggesting to balance just fire junks in the war ships section.  

Right, sorry about the Elmeti stuff, had no idea they had 4x vs infantry...

...and the flamethrower would be a bit OP after those changes, I guess...

...and I guess if we compare the training times of industrial heavy cannon (+ upgrade) and flying crow, then ur right....

And I was completely stupid suggesting a range change...

Lol I shoulda known that this would happen when replying to Ivan lol. Nvm, ur right on all of these things.

ad macehaultins

Actually, I think that Maces have the same stats as a Russian Strelet, but cost 50% more so I think they are manageable at the moment.

Cuirrasiers have to become weaker or the card Thoroughbreds has to be deleted

MaxJ:

Cuirrasiers have to become weaker or the card Thoroughbreds has to be deleted

...

Wow max, you are so intelligent, you told everyone something that all world knows.

 Also, I already suggested a change for that unit

Yeah, cuirassiers (ahem, lamerassiers) definitely need some work. The problem with them is that they are so good against most units that are supposed to counter them (ie, halbs, ruyters). I agree with your changes for them. Might I also suggest an increase in pop cost and a decrease in ranged resistance? Just some ideas.