AOE3 Forums

yepp i have to agree now that RR are useless against dutch. i used them for 3 games after my initial victory and they just get eaten up. they purely just are not cost effective against the ryters if they manage to age up with you or 1-2 mins after you do.

axe and cetan is the only way to go if you want to win against good players. even then though you must play a perfect game to win.

Stephennn

RR are worthless becuase of thier cost/train time

A combination of RR + Wakina or Cetan + Axe Riders would work well. RR may have a hard time against Ruyters & Skirmishers but they'll defeat everything else . Wakina will defeat them because of their longer range. And Axe Riders are quite good.

As Sioux only rushing & raiding early can lead to victory. Avoid fighting against Pikes or going too close to TC for a long time. Kill & run. Try to age up to Fortress before Dutch. Then use Fire Dance & finish them.

Oddball the Angry:

RR are worthless becuase of thier cost/train time

If they are wothless then tell me how would you counter 4-6 heavy cannons surrounded by Halbs ?

RR counters most of the units & their ROF is very good.

 

LOL?

 

dude ever heard something about microing?

 

u can use br on pike and axe on skirms

sioux cav rocks anything dude....

Maendli:

LOL?

 

dude ever heard something about microing?

 

u can use br on pike and axe on skirms

sioux cav rocks anything dude....

hahhaha no crap dude i micro extremely well.

ill like to see your try beat a quality dutch player that keeps there 8pike and 10 skirms tight inside there buildings where TC fire/outposts will rip your cavalry to crap if you try attack. you can only do that if they are stupid to come out which doesnt often happen when you verse good players. there army just comes out to garrison up there vils from my raids and staight back in.

i don't know wtf your versing dude. MS? i can even beat them....

i'm having problems with players like PR 25+ which are a little bit more smarter :P

Stephennn

Babri:

Oddball the Angry:

RR are worthless becuase of thier cost/train time

If they are wothless then tell me how would you counter 4-6 heavy cannons surrounded by Halbs ?

RR counters most of the units & their ROF is very good.

 

yeah Babri i agree with to an extent. i believe its better to go with the axe rider/cetan combo at the start. but like you said, once the dutch age up you definitely must invest in a batch of rifle riders to get those cannons which are protected with anti-cav (hali/pikes).

pity the war chief cant be as OP his multiplier in mid-game as it is in late game. otherwise I'd rip everyone's cannons to pieces :P

Stephennn

Babri:

Oddball the Angry:

RR are worthless becuase of thier cost/train time

If they are wothless then tell me how would you counter 4-6 heavy cannons surrounded by Halbs ?

RR counters most of the units & their ROF is very good.

 

Axe Riders?????

Sure the halbs will damage them but RR are the only alternative and I hate RR.

Axe riders will do the job better than RR anytime.

Here's my opinion. If you're in age 2, just focus on a combo of Axe Riders and Cetan bows. Only add War Clubs if he starts using a large amount of Hussars that your Axe Riders can't handle. You shouldn't try sieging a Dutch base in age 2 unless you've already really weakened him to the point where you can easily overwhelm him with numbers. Anyway if you get in a situation where your Dutch opponent has his army tightly packed in his base, I recommend you head for age 3 while starving him from hunts and consolidating map control. You can gain map control by shipping 3 trading posts and building tepees around the map for LOS and a nice boost for your troops in case your opponent decides to push forward. Once in age 3, your goal should be replacing Cetans with Wakinas, upgrading and training a few more Axe Riders and then building up a group of villagers dancing on the fire pit. I think 10-15 is enough for an effective siege dance but feel free to make more. Once you feel comfortable go ahead and attack him. I suppose you should attack with a heavy amount of Wakinas. Shoot the skirms and any incoming pike with the Wakina while sieging banks and other buildings blocking your path with the Axe Riders. Once the building comes down you then have your chance to hunt down the remaining skirms with your Axe Riders. Don't hesitate to use Axe Riders against skirms if there is already room however. Please try this out before commenting. I also recommend trying it out on GP. GL and I hope this helps.

Gomz3454:

Here's my opinion. If you're in age 2, just focus on a combo of Axe Riders and Cetan bows. Only add War Clubs if he starts using a large amount of Hussars that your Axe Riders can't handle. You shouldn't try sieging a Dutch base in age 2 unless you've already really weakened him to the point where you can easily overwhelm him with numbers. Anyway if you get in a situation where your Dutch opponent has his army tightly packed in his base, I recommend you head for age 3 while starving him from hunts and consolidating map control. You can gain map control by shipping 3 trading posts and building tepees around the map for LOS and a nice boost for your troops in case your opponent decides to push forward. Once in age 3, your goal should be replacing Cetans with Wakinas, upgrading and training a few more Axe Riders and then building up a group of villagers dancing on the fire pit. I think 10-15 is enough for an effective siege dance but feel free to make more. Once you feel comfortable go ahead and attack him. I suppose you should attack with a heavy amount of Wakinas. Shoot the skirms and any incoming pike with the Wakina while sieging banks and other buildings blocking your path with the Axe Riders. Once the building comes down you then have your chance to hunt down the remaining skirms with your Axe Riders. Don't hesitate to use Axe Riders against skirms if there is already room however. Please try this out before commenting. I also recommend trying it out on GP. GL and I hope this helps.

Theoretically speaking, very good. BUt in real life no dutch in his right mind would just sit there and let you take map control without a fight. It would be a major battle for control. especially on GP or GL where you have to control the entire map and not just a few Choke points like on himalayas.

Oddball the Angry:

Gomz3454:

Here's my opinion. If you're in age 2, just focus on a combo of Axe Riders and Cetan bows. Only add War Clubs if he starts using a large amount of Hussars that your Axe Riders can't handle. You shouldn't try sieging a Dutch base in age 2 unless you've already really weakened him to the point where you can easily overwhelm him with numbers. Anyway if you get in a situation where your Dutch opponent has his army tightly packed in his base, I recommend you head for age 3 while starving him from hunts and consolidating map control. You can gain map control by shipping 3 trading posts and building tepees around the map for LOS and a nice boost for your troops in case your opponent decides to push forward. Once in age 3, your goal should be replacing Cetans with Wakinas, upgrading and training a few more Axe Riders and then building up a group of villagers dancing on the fire pit. I think 10-15 is enough for an effective siege dance but feel free to make more. Once you feel comfortable go ahead and attack him. I suppose you should attack with a heavy amount of Wakinas. Shoot the skirms and any incoming pike with the Wakina while sieging banks and other buildings blocking your path with the Axe Riders. Once the building comes down you then have your chance to hunt down the remaining skirms with your Axe Riders. Don't hesitate to use Axe Riders against skirms if there is already room however. Please try this out before commenting. I also recommend trying it out on GP. GL and I hope this helps.

Theoretically speaking, very good. BUt in real life no dutch in his right mind would just sit there and let you take map control without a fight. It would be a major battle for control. especially on GP or GL where you have to control the entire map and not just a few Choke points like on himalayas.

no? dutch often will try to head to age 3 asap in that match up and then **** the sioux with rutyers/skirms. 

Stephennn:

Hey guys,

I just wanted a bit of help/ advice on taking on dutch. I play only on TWC cause my favourite civilization is Sioux and I am yet to purchase TAD. Plan to do so in a few weeks.

Anywho back to the point. I find it easy to beat dutch players at about i guess 2nd liut and down the ranks, but anything above that i lose every single time. lets just say the map is great plains.

first of all any unit combo i use against dutch seems to get destroyed. as shown here:

• if i go infantry (cetan/club) skirms hit and run me immensely.
• BR (bowrider) seems useless against tc fire and any outposts.
• Pure axe gets owned by that 8 pike card. and a combo of both Br and axe seems to be useless cause they turtle in close to their base not letting me pic off with hit and run

 

so i usually turn to cetan/axe rider but i have a feeling not best option. please any help will be appreicated :)

Also I seem to be very skilled at raiding against dutch and often kill about 5-7 villagers with virtually no loses to cavalry, and also no loses to my villager economy which i constantly keep qued up. I was wondering considering i can raid this amount of villagers, is it viable at this stage to out boom the dutch to fortress (hopefully they think i'm going for hard rush), get 20 wakina and end this hit and run crap by doing it to their pikes :D

I want to beat dutch with sioux and don't rely want to take 'pick a different civ' as an answer to this complication :P

thanks guys :D

 

Stephennn

The 9 axe rider semi-FF pretty much destroys dutch - age with the chief, build a corral, train 5 axe riders and send 4, then send 700 and go to fortress with the messenger. Use your axe riders to raid. Don't forget to gather another 50 wood for a warhut. Later just send fortress shipments and tear his banks down with axe riders on siege dance.

 sorry i don't know how to multi quote so ill just do this :P

@ Gomz3454

yeah this is essentially what i do now. if only you told me like 2 weeks ago it would of been awesome. thanks though   :D

@ oddball

i dont really have my Dutch opponents competeing for map control in the first 10mins of the game because they are so self sufficent at this point in time with banks and one herdable near there TC. not to mention the fear of sioux cav on the openness of the map usually keeps them tucked in there base if they are smart. once they age to fortress though, yes they certainly find the need to take map control.

@ wazzal

i tried this style several times  but pure axe doesnt work for me against dutch. that 8 pike card with good micro stops it to well. that's why i reckon axe/cetan is the way to go.

 

Stephennn

 

gae with 16 vills with the wise women, go pure axe and raid raid raid, run from any units, don t lose an axe! when you have about 20 axe, send evening star, and all you axe turn into rifle riders. then you can hit and run all pikes, and they do good agaisnt skirms. then switch gold vills to food and spam war clubs for siege. gg

thanster:

gae with 16 vills with the wise women, go pure axe and raid raid raid, run from any units, don t lose an axe! when you have about 20 axe, send evening star, and all you axe turn into rifle riders. then you can hit and run all pikes, and they do good agaisnt skirms. then switch gold vills to food and spam war clubs for siege. gg

 

the problem is that by the time you have 20 axe-->RR conversion, the dutch player will be rutyer spamming :(  and skirms beat RR quite well TBH