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Last post 05-20-2012, 9:38 AM by Dziekujeziomek. 5 replies.
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  •  05-14-2012, 11:05 PM 956924
    Dziekujeziomek Dziekujeziomek is not online. Last active: 11-26-2012, 2:09 PM
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    Subject: Help against Otto FF as Russia
    Otto is Russia's toughest MU, does anyone have a good build order for a Manchu FF, Klamuck FF, or some sort of semi ff that is a good counter to the standard Spahi/falconet/Jan combo that Otto uses in Fortress? Pure musk rush is noob, and fails hard, staying colonial just doesnt seem viable imo. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance :)
  •  05-14-2012, 11:41 PM 956929 in reply to 956924
    nat0 nat0 is not online. Last active: 09/30/2013, 12:46 AM
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    Subject: Re: Help against Otto FF as Russia

    14 settler age up musk rush is probably just as viable as ff i would say. you just have to be very fast, take down all houses (forget the tower) and constantly camp the villagers gathering the 700 food shipment (sent for spahi, straight after 700 coin) trying to kill as many as you can. you have to do all this knowing that if the otto has allocated his resources correctly he will be able send 6 minutemen as soon as he hits fortress with the 4 hussar. if you have killed all houses, kept him off hunts and still have your mass he will hopefully be just shy of 1000 food and trying to chop wood to get to 20 pop room (if the otto has got lucky with treasures however your screwed) while you seige his tc. my little trick in this mu as otto is to send a villager to the edge of the map to build a house, so try and scout for this. try and keep your cossack away from tc fire in case the otto was silly enough to age with abus or to send 2 falconets without any back up. if the otto doesn't send 700 food and tries some other ff b.o I think its a pretty easy win for russia actually, as long as you keep your mass (cannot stress that point enough) and try to keep up villager production as best you can. a big mistake russians can make with a 14 age up musk rush is to sacrifice villager production completely; just try and stay ahead of the opponent.

    anyway if you want to risk playing an ottoman in fortress I think you could first consider if its a water map going schooners, and trying to fight with warships in late colonial with a musk/cossack mass.even just 17 villager age up trying to fight late colonial on a land map with a superior economy and map control could work if your very lucky.

    for ff as russia i would probably age 17 settlers and go early market if possible, maybe I would use atp card on a map with a decent trade route, or you could go for schooners still with just 1 dock. 300 wood would probably be a last resort kind of card if your going ff, if on tad of course send wood trickle. people a long time ago on nilla use to send fuhrer card.. or you could always skip sending a card in discovery like port sometimes do.

    i would recommend chopping 200/250 wood in transition for a tp or if you sent atp chop 300 or so and get two. first card in colonial 700 coin. next your best choice would probably be 700 wood for houses, market, church and blockhouse if you haven't already.  by the time this arrives you should be aging or almost there. if you want to get kalmuck out early i would send the church card next (or if your on a map with no trade posts you might have to skip 700 wood and just send the church card). age up with the politician that gives you strelets. chop 1000 wood in transition. now its up to you but definately send 2 falconets and manchu before anything else. get strelet up to veteran and mass :P

    imo either way this is pretty hopeless for russia, otto can jan hussar or jan lakota on the right map and win quite comfortably too. if their micro is good jan abus is also viable and some might actually prefer it.

     

     

  •  05-15-2012, 9:31 AM 956940 in reply to 956929
    Dziekujeziomek Dziekujeziomek is not online. Last active: 11-26-2012, 2:09 PM
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    Subject: Re: Help against Otto FF as Russia
    I always forget to say, this is on map Great PLains xD Hmm, Im uncomfortable with the fact that Russia must essentially get lucky against otto in order to win xD Obviously, if the otto is going jans/abus or jan/husss, Russia shouldnt ff,  in fact in both cases i think Streetlet/Cossack/musk combo could win. However, I'm looking for a counter to the Otto FF, as there's no way the strat is unbeatable. I don't think 700 coin should be Russia's first card in colonial. Im thinking, BO: 300 wood, 700 wood, 700 coin. Use 300 wood for tp (ageup 17 vill) Thenn use 700 wood for defensive blockhouse, church and 2 hiouses (50 wood left over), Age up to 3 with 23 vills, then send all vills to chop the 1000 wood necessary for Kalmucks (4th Card after 700 coin would be Glorious Revolution). Can use the Age fast politician, Im still trying to test it out. At what time can Otto usually get 5 Spahi out? 
  •  05-15-2012, 10:31 AM 956943 in reply to 956940
    nat0 nat0 is not online. Last active: 09/30/2013, 12:46 AM
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    Subject: Re: Help against Otto FF as Russia

    Dziekujeziomek:
    I always forget to say, this is on map Great PLains xD Hmm, Im uncomfortable with the fact that Russia must essentially get lucky against otto in order to win xD Obviously, if the otto is going jans/abus or jan/husss, Russia shouldnt ff,  in fact in both cases i think Streetlet/Cossack/musk combo could win. However, I'm looking for a counter to the Otto FF, as there's no way the strat is unbeatable. I don't think 700 coin should be Russia's first card in colonial. Im thinking, BO: 300 wood, 700 wood, 700 coin. Use 300 wood for tp (ageup 17 vill) Thenn use 700 wood for defensive blockhouse, church and 2 hiouses (50 wood left over), Age up to 3 with 23 vills, then send all vills to chop the 1000 wood necessary for Kalmucks (4th Card after 700 coin would be Glorious Revolution). Can use the Age fast politician, Im still trying to test it out. At what time can Otto usually get 5 Spahi out? 

     if you 700 wood first card you would be too slow imo, but at the same time if you haven't been able to scout well it would be a good card to adapt to colonial play. 300 wood first for tp yeah that makes sense :) pretty much as soon as they hit fortress otto can send spahi, even if under pressure. in any case the otto will just be too fast for a russian ff

    also make sure to research log flume before you start chopping the 1000 wood

     also consider sending 5 cossack first and doing a semi if you think the otto's hunts are raidable

  •  05-15-2012, 1:58 PM 956962 in reply to 956943
    Lancelot712 Lancelot712 is not online. Last active: 12-28-2013, 4:50 AM
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    Subject: Re: Help against Otto FF as Russia

    This MU is so freaking hard as Russia because you must play it perfectly against the Otto strat.

     If he stays colonial you must to or he will take your tc down before you get kalmusk or manchu or highs.

    If he goes FF you willl get killed very hard in colonial.

    And it always seems you will be behind in trying to adapt to the otto play.

    Basically your wins will come from getting lucky.

  •  05-20-2012, 9:38 AM 957250 in reply to 956962
    Dziekujeziomek Dziekujeziomek is not online. Last active: 11-26-2012, 2:09 PM
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    Subject: Re: Help against Otto FF as Russia
    yeah, the MU is crazy hard, at lower levels russia owns as ottos usually jan rush lmao, but really its a matter of scouting, and checking the deck, and if the russian is unsure of what the otto will do, aging with 17 vills and going defensive might be good i think, because there will be time between the otto aging up, and russian aging up to scout and see what the otto will do. But checking the deck helps a LOT i think, I hate to think that a civ in a match up must get lucky to win, i understand imbalance, but for a civ to have to get lucky just doesnt fly with me xD
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