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  •  05-30-2012, 5:33 PM 957952
    knight_br knight_br is not online. Last active: 12-26-2013, 9:16 PM
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    Subject: About micro, strategy and macro

    looking some vods from pr 35+ i realized that

    SUP

    strategy is more important and have much more influence in the result than the micro itself.

    If u includes in Strategy things like, know if FF, rush... know when/where to atack or back, make army or not, raids, know what your enemy is doing and how he is... what resources he need... etc

    so in importance
    Strategy is like 50%, 
    Micro  40 % (specialy in short games and less if it prolong), 
    Macro 10 % (more if game extend)

    civs without eco, have same chance to win as eco-civs, just by micro strat

     TREATY

    Strategy doesnt change much.  Almost always is 1 army vs another when tr ends. But u can include things like map control,  know when to push harder or be defensife, get flanks positions, double fights and runs.

    Micro:  I´m  considering keep full pop (because of diference fight with 10 than 40 units),
    know where to position army during battle and the canon/cav/inf micro itself.

    so what makes diference in a TR
    Strategy 35 %
    Micro 35 %
    Economy  30 %

    In tr civs with more eco have more chance... similar civs it depend of player´s micro and strat ability.
    U can also lost a game with a lot of resources, just by losting map control.

    ...........................................................................

    Micro is as important in tr as in sup. But there are also much more strategys to learn in sup than TR,

    Thats what make Sup harder.

     


    MTSP_Fuher

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gInNcSiT74w

    http://www.mediafire.com/folder/dtdqjyg99m0r8/RGs_AOE3
  •  05-30-2012, 8:05 PM 957969 in reply to 957952
    LordStefanIII LordStefanIII is not online. Last active: 11/12/2013, 7:05 PM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    So this is what the TR pros have to resort to? No games so they make funni threads.
  •  05-30-2012, 8:36 PM 957971 in reply to 957969
    knight_br knight_br is not online. Last active: 12-26-2013, 9:16 PM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro

    LordStefanIII:
    So this is what the TR pros have to resort to? No games so they make funni threads.

    its just an answer to ankur, from other threadc.

    Idecide to create in a new topic


    MTSP_Fuher

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gInNcSiT74w

    http://www.mediafire.com/folder/dtdqjyg99m0r8/RGs_AOE3
  •  05-30-2012, 8:40 PM 957972 in reply to 957952
    ANKUR ANKUR is not online. Last active: 09-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    knight_br:

    looking some vods from pr 35+ i realized that

    SUP

    strategy is more important and have much more influence in the result than the micro itself.

    If u includes in Strategy things like, know if FF, rush... know when/where to atack or back, make army or not, raids, know what your enemy is doing and how he is... what resources he need... etc

    so in importance
    Strategy is like 50%, 
    Micro  40 % (specialy in short games and less if it prolong), 
    Macro 10 % (more if game extend)

    civs without eco, have same chance to win as eco-civs, just by micro strat

     TREATY

    Strategy doesnt change much.  Almost always is 1 army vs another when tr ends. But u can include things like map control,  know when to push harder or be defensife, get flanks positions, double fights and runs.

    Micro:  I´m  considering keep full pop (because of diference fight with 10 than 40 units),
    know where to position army during battle and the canon/cav/inf micro itself.

    so what makes diference in a TR
    Strategy 35 %
    Micro 35 %
    Economy  30 %

    In tr civs with more eco have more chance... similar civs it depend of player´s micro and strat ability.
    U can also lost a game with a lot of resources, just by losting map control.

    ...........................................................................

    Micro is as important in tr as in sup. But there are also much more strategys to learn in sup than TR,

    Thats what make Sup harder.

     

    +10000000000000000 

     well said

    strategy by sup is much harder , u hardly get chance to repair ur mistake , this only comes after experience and thinking, i agree sup is harder , not skill wise(u still have more scope to show skill in treaty) but its harder by the way it demand instant and correct desicion at the rite time , and actually this is more imp in any rts than any thing else


    knight_br:
    Optimal explanation .. very succinctly


    LordStefanIII:

    Unkown_Genius:
    Leave it to Age.Comm to get a thread twenty miles off topic.


    :)

    Or turn into a flame war.

  •  05-31-2012, 2:13 AM 957979 in reply to 957972
    Jerom Jerom is not online. Last active: 28 Dec 2013, 7:18 PM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro

    lol by your reasoning treaty has only 70% skill and 30% doing the same boom over and over again for a week, after which you don't even need to think about how you do it.

    Honestly though I think the argument of ankur that you can do much more in Treaty (so much more multitasking etc.) is total bs. In sup I never have this feeling (when its like past 9 minutes) that I am not playing at my maximum speed. The amount of micro you can do during a battle is infinite and you can also macro during the battle. The apm you need to micro a sup battle perfectly and macro in the meanwhile is extremedly huge (and prolly something you will never reach playing a treaty game).

    Other than that the skill argument comes down to the competition in a game and the random factors influencing the game.


    [N3O] Jerom_the_brave
    http://www.youtube.com/user/N3OJerom?feature=mhee

  •  05-31-2012, 2:43 AM 957983 in reply to 957979
    ANKUR ANKUR is not online. Last active: 09-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro

    traety is not 70% skill and 30% boom , that is funny it you get this meaning , i am just saying u have much more SCOPE of microing and multi tasking in treaty , thatz doesnt mean that treaty is much more ABOUT microing and multitasking , its huge difference between these 2 statement, becoz treaty has very noobie enviourment and only few play treaty at gud lvl

    and are u saying microing 30-40 army need more apm than microing 100 pop army ? , lolz

    u need much more  apm to micro in treaty PERFACTLY( prolly something none will ever reached ),

    btw my this stetement i am not saying treaty is all about microing or treaty pros do perfect micro(none do intense micro in treaty) , they basically relly on more unit placement , but IF you  CAN do micro in treaty same  as u do in sup , thatz require much much much more apm ,

     

     

    in sup u MAY feel many time ur apm as not fully used  , but in treaty u can use ur full apm and still u have much more scope to do more (if you are WILLING to do and you are not casual becoz of the fact that you can still win without much micro and multitasking becoz of noobie enviourment in treaty ) ,  treaty has just endless scope to utilize ur apm and speed

     

    i think many of the treaty pro will agree that in a treaty gg , many time they feel  they can do many more things but they are not able to do 


    knight_br:
    Optimal explanation .. very succinctly


    LordStefanIII:

    Unkown_Genius:
    Leave it to Age.Comm to get a thread twenty miles off topic.


    :)

    Or turn into a flame war.

  •  05-31-2012, 2:50 AM 957984 in reply to 957979
    Masinkov_ Masinkov_ is not online. Last active: 01-08-2013, 7:15 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro

    hey ankur. i didnt wanted to blame you with my post in other thread that treaty isnt skillfull. im new here on this forum and didnt know this issue is a problem.

    for sure you need some skill to play treaty on higher level. like you said its harder to play sup. im not an expert in treaty40. i prefer 10 or 20. but im a sup player. the few times i play treaty 40 its like you can sit down 40 minutes and than spam full upgraded units with full upgraded eco. in sup i have to do all together and action starts at 5-6 minutes. its not like a sup game is a rush game all or nothing. you have to adapt your play early in game. its just harder to build up eco and fight at same time imo. and i doubt you can micro proper 100 units. its more that you need even more attack move in treaty games.

     about the percentage in sup and treaty im not sure. i dont think you win a game in sup with 10% eco. its more a mix of all together. and a sup game can also come to a late game. and than i think you have used more units than in a treaty game. in treaty you will never use for example xbows or piks. or as french hussars when you have cuirassers. sup has just much more variations.

    but i dont know you guys. its just my view. feel free to invite me to a 1v1 sup game. eso: masinkov

  •  05-31-2012, 3:30 AM 957985 in reply to 957984
    ANKUR ANKUR is not online. Last active: 09-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    thatz the point u cant micro 100 unit perfactly becoz , u just dont have enough speed to do so ( but thatz doesnt mean that treaty dont have scope to micro or multitasking , its becoz u are not able to), but whatever apm and speed u have , u can use it to trying to micro 100 unit properly , anyways like fuher said  sup is harder becoz u hardly get chace to repair ur mistakes and its much more about using rite strategy at rite time and gud microing as well

    knight_br:
    Optimal explanation .. very succinctly


    LordStefanIII:

    Unkown_Genius:
    Leave it to Age.Comm to get a thread twenty miles off topic.


    :)

    Or turn into a flame war.

  •  05-31-2012, 3:39 AM 957986 in reply to 957979
    LordStefanIII LordStefanIII is not online. Last active: 11/12/2013, 7:05 PM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    Jerom:

    lol by your reasoning treaty has only 70% skill and 30% doing the same boom over and over again for a week, after which you don't even need to think about how you do it.

    Honestly though I think the argument of ankur that you can do much more in Treaty (so much more multitasking etc.) is total bs. In sup I never have this feeling (when its like past 9 minutes) that I am not playing at my maximum speed. The amount of micro you can do during a battle is infinite and you can also macro during the battle. The apm you need to micro a sup battle perfectly and macro in the meanwhile is extremedly huge (and prolly something you will never reach playing a treaty game).

    Other than that the skill argument comes down to the competition in a game and the random factors influencing the game.

    Jeez this post is so hard to understand.

    So you're saying you micro way more in supremacy than in TR? and that you need more APM? You're obviously in no position to be making this argument, as you have no TR experience. Oh but wait, didn't you say all you have to do is read something to be pro at it in our last thread? I've clocked my APM higher than SC2 players when I used to use British. The amount of crap you have to do to cow perfectly, and macro unit production while forward basing and pushing + culv warring and sending rocket cards ect. My mechanics in this game are good, but one reason I fail at supremacy is I lack overall strategy and adapting. I'm sure TR is to blame for this though.

  •  05-31-2012, 4:04 AM 957989 in reply to 957986
    Masinkov_ Masinkov_ is not online. Last active: 01-08-2013, 7:15 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    well you need more APM when not using hotkeys :) but i dont think a max APM speed is in aoe3 so important.  
  •  05-31-2012, 4:14 AM 957990 in reply to 957986
    ANKUR ANKUR is not online. Last active: 09-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    LordStefanIII:

    Jeez this post is so hard to understand.

    So you're saying you micro way more in supremacy than in TR? and that you need more APM? You're obviously in no position to be making this argument, as you have no TR experience. Oh but wait, didn't you say all you have to do is read something to be pro at it in our last thread? I've clocked my APM higher than SC2 players when I used to use British. The amount of crap you have to do to cow perfectly, and macro unit production while forward basing and pushing + culv warring and sending rocket cards ect. My mechanics in this game are good, but one reason I fail at supremacy is I lack overall strategy and adapting. I'm sure TR is to blame for this though.

    +1

    anyways , for me ,  i found a gud treaty game more fun playing than a gud sup game 


    knight_br:
    Optimal explanation .. very succinctly


    LordStefanIII:

    Unkown_Genius:
    Leave it to Age.Comm to get a thread twenty miles off topic.


    :)

    Or turn into a flame war.

  •  05-31-2012, 4:18 AM 957992 in reply to 957989
    ANKUR ANKUR is not online. Last active: 09-15-2013, 1:53 AM
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    Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
    •  

      Masinkov_:
      well you need more APM when not using hotkeys :) but i dont think a max APM speed is in aoe3 so important.  

      i think u dont understand apm well , without hotkeys , u cant get gud apm ,

      btw you think apm is not imp in aoe3 , becoz u didnt played gud high lvl aoe3 games


      knight_br:
      Optimal explanation .. very succinctly


      LordStefanIII:

      Unkown_Genius:
      Leave it to Age.Comm to get a thread twenty miles off topic.


      :)

      Or turn into a flame war.

    •  05-31-2012, 4:30 AM 957996 in reply to 957990
      Milky__ Milky__ is not online. Last active: Tue, Dec 17 2013, 7:26 PM
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      Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
      ANKUR:
      LordStefanIII:

      Jeez this post is so hard to understand.

      So you're saying you micro way more in supremacy than in TR? and that you need more APM? You're obviously in no position to be making this argument, as you have no TR experience. Oh but wait, didn't you say all you have to do is read something to be pro at it in our last thread? I've clocked my APM higher than SC2 players when I used to use British. The amount of crap you have to do to cow perfectly, and macro unit production while forward basing and pushing + culv warring and sending rocket cards ect. My mechanics in this game are good, but one reason I fail at supremacy is I lack overall strategy and adapting. I'm sure TR is to blame for this though.

      +1

      anyways , for me ,  i found a gud treaty game more fun playing than a gud sup game 

      Tbh I found the same thing.

      For me, 3v3 TR is soo much more fun than 3v3 sup. Especially at top level tr, where we all know each other. Even at col/brig level sup, it's quite fun but egos really really get in the way of making the game actually fun. I

      find 1v1 sup really fun in terms of mechanics, micro and macro, but it's a little less social for me. And usually I don't know my opponent.

      1v1 Tr is okay, I find it more challenging that 3v3/2v2 sup, and definitely more challenging than 3v3/2v2 tr. But again, it's a little less social. Unless I'm playing vs someone like storm or pi or kerk who I would probably be in skype with or people who don't skype as much like fuher, bode, stef, jeff, etc I would enjoy it but still lacking those extra people that make the first 40 mins really fun.

      I never really got to the level/experience in sup where I knew how to play certain MUs proper, so I guess I am a bit bias.

    •  05-31-2012, 5:01 AM 958001 in reply to 957992
      Masinkov_ Masinkov_ is not online. Last active: 01-08-2013, 7:15 AM
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      Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro
      ANKUR:

        Masinkov_:
        well you need more APM when not using hotkeys :) but i dont think a max APM speed is in aoe3 so important.  

        i think u dont understand apm well , without hotkeys , u cant get gud apm ,

        btw you think apm is not imp in aoe3 , becoz u didnt played gud high lvl aoe3 games

        at what point start a good high lvl game? this depends on the view of the player i think. from my view i can say i had some high lvl games.

        and milky i can understand your view. you might be right in everything what you said. the social view and fun with friends on skype is for sure nice. fun factor is for you bigger than competition factor how you write it. and you are a player who can play both styles nice how it seems. so you have always some advantage to your friends. 

        anyway. i dont play with skype anymore. and a treaty 40 game absorb to much time for me. so i enjoy more sup games around 20 minutes. treaty 10 and 20 are also ok. there you dont have 4 layers of wall to fight against.

        but its a game and anyone should play what he likes more. tastes are different.    

      •  05-31-2012, 5:23 AM 958002 in reply to 958001
        BuZz_D BuZz_D is not online. Last active: 06-15-2012, 8:17 AM
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        Subject: Re: About micro, strategy and macro

        Be more attentive to the mini map and youll see a huge difference.

        One of the best at this was whiteirish back in the day. We always had some great 1v1 battles.

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