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Last post 08-25-2012, 8:21 PM by Metis. 32 replies.
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  •  08-04-2012, 5:23 PM 963889
    Xedus Xedus is not online. Last active: 09-16-2012, 7:43 AM
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    Subject: Artillery rate of fire

    Does anybody have a complete list of the artillery rate of fire? I see that Great Bombard has a ROF of 8, and is it true that Li'l Bombard has a ROF of 4? Surely not?

    Either way, I find that the Great Bombard really sucks ass. If the ROF is 8, doesn't that mean it is half as slow as a horse artillery which is 4, and though it has high base damage, it has negative multipliers against cav, light infantry and artillery. So basically it sucks ass against anything but heavy infantry, which is easily dealt with by ordinary cannons. 

    Am I missing something here?

    edit: obviously they have 5 splash, but so does flying crow, right? A faster ROF > splash anyway since it's almost impossible to space out all your cannon shots exactly where you want anyway, there's always overlap. 

  •  08-04-2012, 7:41 PM 963894 in reply to 963889
    Grandevous Grandevous is not online. Last active: 08-31-2013, 7:56 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Xedus:

    Does anybody have a complete list of the artillery rate of fire? I see that Great Bombard has a ROF of 8, and is it true that Li'l Bombard has a ROF of 4? Surely not?

    Either way, I find that the Great Bombard really sucks ass. If the ROF is 8, doesn't that mean it is half as slow as a horse artillery which is 4, and though it has high base damage, it has negative multipliers against cav, light infantry and artillery. So basically it sucks ass against anything but heavy infantry, which is easily dealt with by ordinary cannons. 

    Am I missing something here?

    edit: obviously they have 5 splash, but so does flying crow, right? A faster ROF > splash anyway since it's almost impossible to space out all your cannon shots exactly where you want anyway, there's always overlap. 

    Bombard rof is indeed 8 and a Falconet/horse artillery is  4. Lil bombard has a rof of 6. 


    Death will take you without a care for circumstance or timing; live life to the fullest without fear of death, or need to know why it chooses who it does - otherwise you are already dead.
  •  08-10-2012, 6:12 PM 964470 in reply to 963894
    Ozymandias Ozymandias is not online. Last active: 08-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Frankly Artillery in this game is WAY too overpowered. I wonder whether there's a mod to change this.
  •  08-10-2012, 7:10 PM 964477 in reply to 964470
    HunterCallahan HunterCallahan is not online. Last active: 09-13-2013, 10:24 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    Ozymandias:
    Frankly Artillery in this game is WAY too overpowered. I wonder whether there's a mod to change this.

    Ever heard of cavalry? You might try that sometime.


    cam44:

    wut inn thee fawk r u tokking abowt?
  •  08-10-2012, 7:50 PM 964485 in reply to 964477
    Marpolo Marpolo is not online. Last active: 07-14-2013, 6:10 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Artillery is only OP when the computer players spam it. Even them culverins can make short work of them.
  •  08-10-2012, 8:10 PM 964487 in reply to 964477
    Ozymandias Ozymandias is not online. Last active: 08-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    HunterCallahan:

    Ozymandias:
    Frankly Artillery in this game is WAY too overpowered. I wonder whether there's a mod to change this.

    Ever heard of cavalry? You might try that sometime.

    You might try to shut the *** up next time and assume the person knows how to play the damn game.

    I always play on hard difficult and often against multiple allied comps against me.

    I can't help but think artillery is overpowered when 30 imperial gendarmes are slaughtered before they even reach the artillery. 

  •  08-10-2012, 8:11 PM 964488 in reply to 964485
    Ozymandias Ozymandias is not online. Last active: 08-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    "Artillery is only OP when the computer players spam it. Even them culverins can make short work of them. "

    Yes well I find that it's often the case that the AI spams artillery.

  •  08-10-2012, 8:33 PM 964490 in reply to 964470
    Metis Metis is not online. Last active: Thu, Dec 26 2013, 1:38 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    Artillery in this game is so "underpowered" as to be ludicrous. Since mobile artillery was invented it has often been a determiner of success on the battlefield. If you have ever been close enough to an artillery shell blast to feel its shock wave and see the damage it causes you would wonder why the game designers made artillery so "weak." BTW, I'm not speaking here based on something I read, I was in a field artillery battalion in the army.

    Artillery in the AOE 3 time-frame: 

    At Waterloo, Napoleon gives orders to his batteries to cease firing and sends his cavalry and infantry to attack Wellington's position. Wellington's artillery wait until the enemy are at close range then open fire, killing up to 120 men per cannon per hour.

    "Hard pounding this, gentlemen; let's see who will pound longest." -- Wellington at Waterloo

    General Jackson (Andrew, not "Stonewall," as I mistakenly wrote down here) enlists the help of local pirates who strip the cannon from their ships and place them into earthen breastworks around New Orleans. In the battle the Americans lose 55 men, the British suffer over 2000 casualties.

    "We looked down the river and we see'd the British come. And there must have been a hundred of'em beatin' on the drum. They stepped so high and they made the bugles ring. We stood by our cotton bales and didn't say a thing." -- Johnny Horton, The Battle of New Orleans

    Due to a miscommunication and the arrogance of field commanders, British cavalry charge against the Russian cannon at Balaclava, losing half their men.

    "Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, While horse & hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro' the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, all that was left of them, Left of six hundred" -- Tennyson, The Charge of the Light Brigade

  •  08-10-2012, 8:53 PM 964495 in reply to 964490
    Ozymandias Ozymandias is not online. Last active: 08-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    @Metis

    If we're going to judge whether or not artillery is overpowered by assessing how closely it follows reality, then I think we should take into consideration a few more factors:

    1) A single battalion of cavalry would have about 300 units. Artillery on the other hand was fairly uncommon, proportionally speaking, to the quantity of infantry and cavalry. In other words...armies wouldn't have consisted purely of artillery (as they do in the game)...bombarding and effectively destroying an entire force of cavalry before it even reaches them.

    2) I doubt artillery was very accurate at the time (so they would actually miss, versus landing every shot). Especially when targeting horses in full stride. If it was at all effective, they would have to be directed at locations of high density and exposure.

    3) Moving and arming artillery would have been a cumbersome process laden with mishaps, one which would have been greatly effected by the geography and weather conditions in the battlefield.

  •  08-10-2012, 9:29 PM 964497 in reply to 964495
    LordStefanIII LordStefanIII is not online. Last active: 03/07/2014, 4:07 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    I don't see how history is relevant when discussing balance in aoe. However when discussing balance, one must analyze each civ, and their abilities. Each civ can make artillery almost equally, with the exception of several civs advantages, which is almost irrelevant because each civ tends to have their own advantage which is relatively equal to each other. Exampleses: British inf 2 rocket card, German 1 heavy cannon, and Portuguese 3 shot culvs and fast training art.

    Artillery isn't overpowered, or imbalanced because nearly every civ can make it equally, even more so in supremacy.

  •  08-10-2012, 9:38 PM 964498 in reply to 964487
    Grandevous Grandevous is not online. Last active: 08-31-2013, 7:56 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Ozymandias:
    HunterCallahan:

    Ozymandias:
    Frankly Artillery in this game is WAY too overpowered. I wonder whether there's a mod to change this.

    Ever heard of cavalry? You might try that sometime.

    You might try to shut the *** up next time and assume the person knows how to play the damn game.

    I always play on hard difficult and often against multiple allied comps against me.

    I can't help but think artillery is overpowered when 30 imperial gendarmes are slaughtered before they even reach the artillery. 

    Y don't u shut the *** up and learn the *** counter system. 


    Death will take you without a care for circumstance or timing; live life to the fullest without fear of death, or need to know why it chooses who it does - otherwise you are already dead.
  •  08-10-2012, 9:44 PM 964500 in reply to 964498
    Anirko13 Anirko13 is not online. Last active: 02-17-2014, 4:54 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Grandevous:
    Ozymandias:
    HunterCallahan:

    Ozymandias:
    Frankly Artillery in this game is WAY too overpowered. I wonder whether there's a mod to change this.

    Ever heard of cavalry? You might try that sometime.

    You might try to shut the *** up next time and assume the person knows how to play the damn game.

    I always play on hard difficult and often against multiple allied comps against me.

    I can't help but think artillery is overpowered when 30 imperial gendarmes are slaughtered before they even reach the artillery. 

    Y don't u shut the *** up and learn the *** counter system. 

    yeah, tbh, play more multiplayer, ur not a good player just because you can beat the comp on hard......



    Ryz0n:
    I am not a kindergarten teacher. If you kids can't play nice, I will have to start kicking you out of the classroom.
  •  08-10-2012, 9:48 PM 964501 in reply to 964500
    Grandevous Grandevous is not online. Last active: 08-31-2013, 7:56 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    @ ozymandias.  Comps on hard easy to beat. All they do is spam units from the saloon and spam artillery. Ur no genius if u can beat a few comps. So think before u *** start flame wars.


    Death will take you without a care for circumstance or timing; live life to the fullest without fear of death, or need to know why it chooses who it does - otherwise you are already dead.
  •  08-10-2012, 10:08 PM 964502 in reply to 964495
    Metis Metis is not online. Last active: Thu, Dec 26 2013, 1:38 AM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire

    Artillery used against troops (as opposed to ships or buildings) in the Age of Empires era was usually a smooth-bore howitzer, which could either lob an exploding shell about a half mile or direct fire canister shot to a couple hundred yards. Though not nearly as accurate as the later rifled guns would be, the howitzers didn't need to be. Think of these cannon as really big grenade launchers or really big shotguns and you will get the picture.

    Artillery was more rare than the common foot soldier, yes, but was also much more devastating. A cannon didn't just fire once and that was it. A good field cannon crew could fire almost as fast as a musketeer. Historic reinactors using muzzle-loading cannon have found that they can attain a rate of fire of four rounds a minute with a well-drilled crew, which is almost as fast as an infantryman can reload and fire a musket.

    As for moving cannon around, yes it's tough to do, even in the modern era, but they did it. You can do a lot of things if you have enough people available and you have to do it -- join the Army or Marines and you will find that out.

  •  08-10-2012, 10:25 PM 964504 in reply to 964501
    Ozymandias Ozymandias is not online. Last active: 08-11-2012, 1:32 PM
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    Subject: Re: Artillery rate of fire
    Grandevous:

    @ ozymandias.  Comps on hard easy to beat. All they do is spam units from the saloon and spam artillery. Ur no genius if u can beat a few comps. So think before u *** start flame wars.

    and

    "yeah, tbh, play more multiplayer, ur not a good player just because you can beat the comp on hard......"

    ??? Ok....before I send a barrage of heated profanity at your direction, I'll give you the opportunity of glancing over my comment again and reading it a little more closely. Did I ever say that I was a good player? I've been playing this game for 1 month. As confident as I may be, I'm not so pretentious as to claim that I'm better than some random person on the game's forum.

    I was only trying to convince whoever the hell it was that I was talking to, that I knew how to play the game.

    In other words: I know the difference between sending cavalry at a bunch of artillery and sending a bunch of infantry. 

     I'm not trying to compete with you people, quite frankly, I don't give enough of a ***. 

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