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Last post 06-03-2008, 6:36 PM by gooback. 30 replies.
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Subject:
Ashi stats
I would like to point out a problem with ashi's. Skirm base stats
171 hp at range
15 atk
30 atk vs HI
20 range
4 speed
Ashi base stats
170 hp at range
26 atk
12 range
4.5 speed
Ashi are slightly cheaper than skirm. Now the hp/atk stats are very similar yet skirms only do that atk vs HI, ashi do it vs everything. Just with the ashi dmg card they do 31.2 dmg meaning they cost effectively beat their counter after just one card, they have several upgrades thereafter. With other musket units it not that much of a problem cuz the 8 range difference allows u to keep them at a safe distance but with the speed advantage they can close this gap, with the speed wonder up they're even faster. Their eco is stronger and safer than most civs, just takes a bit to get going. Sort of like dutch pre patch except with much stronger units and no need to age.
Did I get that right? Just looking at the stats seems plain obvious y they're so dominant.
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
japan has:
OP eco
OP bow
OP ashi
OP wonder
OP consulate
OP monk
OP cards
more military pop
summary: japan OP
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
 jayce:
I would like to point out a problem with ashi's.
Skirm base stats
171 hp at range
15 atk
30 atk vs HI
20 range
4 speed
Ashi base stats
170 hp at range
26 atk
12 range
4.5 speed
Ashi are slightly cheaper than skirm. Now the hp/atk stats are very similar yet skirms only do that atk vs HI, ashi do it vs everything. Just with the ashi dmg card they do 31.2 dmg meaning they cost effectively beat their counter after just one card, they have several upgrades thereafter. With other musket units it not that much of a problem cuz the 8 range difference allows u to keep them at a safe distance but with the speed advantage they can close this gap, with the speed wonder up they're even faster. Their eco is stronger and safer than most civs, just takes a bit to get going. Sort of like dutch pre patch except with much stronger units and no need to age.
Did I get that right? Just looking at the stats seems plain obvious y they're so dominant.
U kinda missed out on the fact that skirms counter light cavalry (yes, that inculdes rifle riders, which would completely pwn Ashis) and ashis dont stand a hope in hell against them. Genitours can get 20 range, so they could easily micro musketeers... Plus skirms get much more ranged armor, particularly cassadors... This makes them better against muskets, light cav and other skirms then Ashis. So they arent completely OP...
Infact, Im pretty sure cost effectively they are worse than regular muskets...
Regular Musket Ashigaru Same Cost Musketeer
HP: 150 HP: 170 HP: 180
Ranged Attack: 23 Ranged Attack: 26 Ranged Attack: 28
Hand Attack: 13 Hand Attack: 10 Hand Attack: 16
Siege Attack: 20 Siege Attack: 21 Siege Attack: 24
So cost effectively, the regular musk beats the Ashigaru in combat in almost every way...
The most British-Dutch person here, or is it Dutch-British? Lets call it Butch. Yeah, so hi, Im Butch.
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
So cost effectively, the regular musk beats the Ashigaru in combat in almost every way...
with cards and wonder, eco
they are extremely OP
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
firstaim:
So cost effectively, the regular musk beats the Ashigaru in combat in almost every way...
with cards and wonder, eco
they are extremely OP
Lol I forgot about that...
The most British-Dutch person here, or is it Dutch-British? Lets call it Butch. Yeah, so hi, Im Butch.
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
People constantly complaining about ashis when ashis aren't really the problem, the biggest problem is them getting 10% bonus from consulate, 10% bonus from diamyos and 15% from pavillion. Best way to balance: Drop the HP bonus from shogun and the damage bonus from the diamyos, and lower pavillion bonus to 10% for ranged dmg, that way you drop 15% of their damage, that should balance out the ashis good enough and balance out japan compared to other civs enough.
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
That would actually be more like 39.15% (of base stats) which would be massive to nerfing Japan. I would personally love to just see a fair Japan.
from the hand of, murdilator
 Skidbladnir: Leave Unction alone! If you don't like unctions boost i suggest you kill the missionaries giving the boost when you play the game.
Murdilator: Taunt 26
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
one thing to consider-
An ashigaru has almost perfectly scaled stats of a musket per cost, however-
An ashi kills a musket in 6 shots while a musket kills an ashi in 8 shots. The unit wasn't designed to scale in terms of shots-to-kill.
The Ashigaru is basically +13% of a musket (in cost and stats), yet it's K:D ratio is going to be 33% better than normal muskets based upon the shots it takes to kill.
So in a musket vs musket fight, equal cost, ashigaru are going to win ever so slightly.
In other words, 5 Ashi may cost the same as 6 musket and technically have less total HP and Attack, but they are a more efficiently designed unit in terms of kill volleys, so they're going to beat the Muskets.
Looking at damage and HP is stupid, what matters is the number of shots it takes to kill another unit. Ashigaru cost-eff **** muskets, even though their stats are cost-eff worse. This is an inherent imbalance w/the unit IMO.
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Subject:
Re: Ashi stats
GuitarHeroMatt: jayce:
I would like to point out a problem with ashi's.
Skirm base stats
171 hp at range
15 atk
30 atk vs HI
20 range
4 speed
Ashi base stats
170 hp at range
26 atk
12 range
4.5 speed
Ashi are slightly cheaper than skirm. Now the hp/atk stats are very similar yet skirms only do that atk vs HI, ashi do it vs everything. Just with the ashi dmg card they do 31.2 dmg meaning they cost effectively beat their counter after just one card, they have several upgrades thereafter. With other musket units it not that much of a problem cuz the 8 range difference allows u to keep them at a safe distance but with the speed advantage they can close this gap, with the speed wonder up they're even faster. Their eco is stronger and safer than most civs, just takes a bit to get going. Sort of like dutch pre patch except with much stronger units and no need to age.
Did I get that right? Just looking at the stats seems plain obvious y they're so dominant.
U kinda missed out on the fact that skirms counter light cavalry (yes, that inculdes rifle riders, which would completely pwn Ashis) and ashis dont stand a hope in hell against them. Genitours can get 20 range, so they could easily micro musketeers... Plus skirms get much more ranged armor, particularly cassadors... This makes them better against muskets, light cav and other skirms then Ashis. So they arent completely OP...
Infact, Im pretty sure cost effectively they are worse than regular muskets...
Regular Musket Ashigaru Same Cost Musketeer
HP: 150 HP: 170 HP: 180
Ranged Attack: 23 Ranged Attack: 26 Ranged Attack: 28
Hand Attack: 13 Hand Attack: 10 Hand Attack: 16
Siege Attack: 20 Siege Attack: 21 Siege Attack: 24
So cost effectively, the regular musk beats the Ashigaru in combat in almost every way...
You didn't factor in splintering, the transformation of more res worth of units in a similar amount of time or upgrades.
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