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Last post 07-16-2008, 8:13 PM by Иван Грозный. 123 replies.
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  •  07-05-2008, 4:57 PM 717287
    Иван Грозный Иван Грозный is not online. Last active: 07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
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    Subject: My "Idea" of balance

    Hi, well, I have been playing this game for a very long time, and I kinda know it good, I have my own idea of balance, however, I might be wrong, and probably stupid, since, I am just a 1st liet, I will list my "idea" of how to make civs balanced, and I hope that you guys tell me in where do you agree, where am I wrong, etc...

    Specially if you are a moderator (In all the threads that I posted in this forum, moderators either dont answer me either answer just a very little part of my post where I am obvious wrong).

    I would like that you could agree with this :), but anyways, here it goes!:

     

    Spain - I have been using this civ for a very little time, however I have faced some spanish opponents and I kinda know know the problem of this civ.

    The civ isn't really that UP, however, its very slightly below average. Why?

    Because, in colonial, it got crappy HI counter, and just cards of pikes and rodeleros, no cards of hussars or xbows. Thats what makes it kinda UP in early game. However I may be kinda wrong, rodeleros got 40% Hand resist and Xbows got a bonus vs HI. However, they still cant effectively beat musks. (Unless xbows make micro).

    To get a good HI counter in early game, spain needs to FF, but since spanish FF got kinda nerfed a lot of times. And now it seems any fast rush (specially the Indian sepoy rush) can beat the spanish FF. However its still very effective, lancers own RI incredibly and can kill HI pretty good too, and rodeleros do the same with cav, with its high cav bonus and its 40% Hand Resist, if it works effectively and your rush wasn't effective, you might lose easily.

    Spain have got a good late game, maybe Spain haven't got a "Villager bonus" as the rest of the europeans civs, but it got a lto of cards and upgrades for their units, specially with unction. Maybe Spanish late game its kinda fine, but maybe it needs a very little nerf to unction.

    My suggestion:

    Boost spanish early game a very little bit, and slightly nerf unction.

    British: I see this civ perfectly balanced, their early game might not be so good, but it got a very powerful mid game and a nice late game. Powerful eco and boom, bad military variation but all the military is powerful, even grenadiers (because of the 4 cards British got to boost em).

    Only possible boost I see to this civ, its to change a fortress politician, to, something good, like, the scout or something...

     

    French: I have been facing this civ a lot, and I have heard a lot of comments about it.

    The civ its kinda balanced, but needs a few fixes, The civ a very slightly weak early game, a nice middle game, but an extremely OP late game. This civ can get more military pop than others in late game, have a better eco (since corueurs gather +25% faster than vills but cost +20% more). It got an incredible military variation, and those OP gendarmes.

    My suggestion:

    Make throughberds be now a convert card, alike to the ones of strelets to musks, xbows to skirms, etc... Just that, this card, converts hussars into gendarmes. And make cuirrs have now colonial stats (like elephants do). The colonial stats would be of 417 HP and 25 attack. In fortress the unit would have 500 HP and 30 attack, but it will be slightly weaker in late game. Maybe this civ also needs an economy nerf in late game, but I am not sure, comment.

     

    Portuguese: I will be honest. I dont know how to use this civ. I never use it and I barely face it. However, by what I hear of other people, this civ needs a major boost in braganca card. And a boost in early game.

    My suggestion: Make the house of braganca be now a trickle card, either age 1, either age 2, or make it give a MAJOR boost to Trade posts. 1 of the 3 previous. Also, somehow boost its early game, make TCs give 1 villager or something. But, this, apart from being a civ hard to boost, I never use it and barely face it. So probably I am very wrong here.

     

    Dutch: The civ is slightly UP, I use it sometimes and face it quite much, and I see that it needs a little boost. By what I see, this civ got a weak early game, a powerful middle game, and an incredibly UP late game.

    My suggestion:

    Give it a very little boost in early game, vills that cost coin slow its early game a bit and bank construction slow its early game a lot, being it very vulnerable to rush. And skirmishers suck a lot, even xbows are more effective than em. I dont know exactly which boost would be the best one, since, I dont use it that much.

    Give it a major boost in late game:

    10 banks may be quite efficient in middle game, however, they are kinda sucky in late game, since, in midd game, a normal vill with a few upgrades (of market or cards) would gather like .8 coin a second, and a bank 2.75, a bank would gather 4 times more than a vill (counting that, banks gather unlimited coin, a mine just 2000).

    However, in late game, a normal F.U. vill with the upgrades and cards to make it gather faster that normal are sent in late game, would gather like 1.4 coin per sec (at a plantation). so Banks would gather just twice more than vills (counting Tulip Speculation card). So, in comparison to other civs, a dutch player can get just 70 vills, while any other 99. Making Dutch have an incredible UP late game. Unless its a water amp and they get fishermen.

    Make the upgrade of capitol that gives +50% coin gathering, make it now also affect banks, but remove the effect that gives dutch +2 banks when they research that upgrade.

    Boost Tulip Speculation, from 15%, to 25% or 30%. 15% Its just to weak to boost dutch late game and to be an Industrial age card.

     

    Russians: The civ isn't really OP or UP, its kinda balanced, however, it got a little problem, Russians are just too good in overall, they got good late game, with cheap infantry, powerfull cavalry, and incredible cards. And got a powerful Rush and early game.  (and a more o less good midd game).

    My suggestion:

    Make Russia be slightly weaker in Late game:

    Nerf Oprichniks, this unit its just way too good and OP. Compare it to a hussar and you will know what I mean. (If you want I can do it in a post later).

    Nerf attack from 20 to 15, but boost multiplier vs villagers to x4.0.

    Also slightly nerf either its siege or its HP, or just delete its bonuses vs artillery and siege troopers. I know that this isnt such a big nerf, but oprichniks are 1 of the main reasons why russia is OP late game.

     

    Germans: This civ got overboosted in the patch, maybe its not OP, but, as Russia, its just way to good in overall, good early game, Uhlans are just incredible, and kill anything, even HI, and this civ got powerful colonial shipments, like, 9 xbows + 2 uhlans and 30 pop houses. Powerful mid game, its pretty easy to get eco with this civ in midd game because of SWs of mills, mercs are also a nice help and the unit variation this civ got in fortress/industrial makes it just amazing. It got powerful late game, Dopplesoldners can get very high stats, and practically own everything, just like cuirrs, they got an incredible eco too, since they can get 139 vills, and as in midd game, nice unit variation, this civ obviously needs a nerf. Only problem is, its that I dont really know how and where to nerf it. I would like that you guys give me suggestions in this, because, I dont want to suggest stupid things :P.

     

    Ottomans: The Civ is almost fine, maybe it got a slightly weak late game, but it got a nice FF and rush. And a powerful mid game. However, it kinda needs a few boosts in cards to make it balanced. I use this civ pretty much and I know it good.

    My suggestion:

    Boost Silk Road card, I know that the card was just a bit OP, but a nerf of 50% its a bit extreme. Boost Silk road from 15% to 20%.

    Boost Acemi OIglan School, Jans create quite slow in late game since they haven't got the card of fencing school. Boost Acemi OIglan School, this card, apart from reducing jans cost, also reduces its creation time a -20%,

    Boost spahi team card, Spahis need an infinite card, since they cant be created from stables, this is something similar to urumis case, India got an infinite card of a unit that cant be spawned and also a team one, why not Ottomans?. Make the card of team 4 spahis be now 4 Spahis infinite. Change it from green to purple. Oh, and decrease its food cost a bit, from 1200 to 1000.

     

    Sioux: I think that the civ is just fine, its quite unique and different to any other civ, It haven't got walls but it got teepees, it haven't got artillery but it got fire pit, etc... Only problem that I see with sioux, are rifle riders, that unit its just crazy with 1.5 ROF, it owns basically anything, even HI, its own counter. Check my other thread of Balancing some units... to see my suggestions of how to nerf that unit.

    And a possible boost, would be to Tashunke prowlers, I mean, their stats are just horrible and you can get just 12 of em, OK their attack get higher by the number, but still they are quite expensive and you can get just 12 of em...

    my suggestion would be to boost their attack from 15 to 20, what do you think?

     

    Aztecs: lol, I dont really know of how to slightly nerf that civ, since, I never used it, and I dont face it a lot. I see that only thing that needs a little nerf of aztecs its their rush, but, I never used aztecs :P. Iroquois.

     

    Iroquois: The civ got a very nice boost in previous patch and it seems balanced, however, it needs a slight boost, Iroquois may have a powerful mid game and early game, but they got an horrible late game, probably the 2nd worst or even the worst late game in this game.

    They need to chop trees to get HI, Heavy Cav, and siege units (and getting wood in late game with natives it a bit hard, since, they haven't got facts, and there is no infinite source of wood, unlike the case of Food and coin (Mills and plantations), Their Light Cav sucks, and Tomahawks are still a bit UP...

    My suggestion:

    Boost tomahawks and musket riders, make a little nerf to aennas (aennas are just way too good after patch, and Iroquois would be just OP as they were before if they got all their colonial units Over Powered. Boost a bit their eco too (maybe more cards or something). Also, now delete the "discovery travois" for iros, its just a weird unit that you can get just once in a game, and its just a clone of the travois. Make iros get a travois in age I as before, BUT now, Iros cant build war huts until colonial age, or just travoises cant build war huts until colonial.

     

    Chinese: I see the civ perfectly fine, it got a very decent nerf in what it needed and probably doesnt needs any other boost or nerf, and its probably the most balanced civ at the moment, only thing that I would like that this civ gets boosted its their Confucius academy, Flying crows are just a bit UP and useless, and take a big time to get trained. Check my thread of Balancing some units... to see my suggestions to this unit. 

     

    India: Pretty obvious Stick out tongue.

    My suggestion:

    Move camel attack to age 3 OR nerf it from 30% to 15%/20%.

    Move dessert terror to age 3.

    both previous suggestion were just obvious, those cards were too OP to be in colonial.

    Delete the 2 sepoys that come in colonial together with the agra fort, the fort is already an incredible advantage in early game, the sepoys just make it more OP, also, Either nerf Indias early game (-1 villager +1 wood crate) either make the agra fort take much more time to construct (10-15 seconds).(To nerf India's Rush).

    Nerf the card that makes +2.35 wood trickle (I forget its name). To +2.15 wood trickle.(To make a colonial nerf to india, that trickle card its just OP, combined with distributivism makes you get a constant vill production, even having 0 vills collecting wood. Only problem would be pop cap.).

    Boost mansabdars aura. (Mansabdars are just crappy, and the charminar gate its just the least used wonder).

    Boost Siege elephants, give em a bonus of x3.0 to artillery, and boost their attack to 45, remove light cavalry Tag, they completely dont need it, dont work as light cav, and just gets em countered easier by RI (there were suggestions about this unit even 6 months ago, its just obvious that they are UP.).

    Boost agra fort for fortress, industrial, and imperial, people rarely build this wonder in this ages, just boost the number of units that this wonder gives, +1 in fortress, +2 in Industrial, and +2 in Imperial.

     

    Japan: As In Indias case, its pretty obvious, the civ its just ridiculously OP.

    My suggestion:

    Nerf Japan's Consulate: Make the dutch building techs be a bit more expensive (Make the church cost 200 export, the Bank 550, and the arsenal 350).

    In the Japanese Isolation, make bushido tactics cost 400 export, the ninjutzu zukai 200 export, and the hatamoto 400.

    Japan got the OPest consulate if compared to the other Asian civs, thats why I am suggesting nerfs to it.

    Nerf shrines, make em cost 150 wood now, and decrease their gathering rate a lil bit: food, from 0.07 to 0.06. and Wood, from 0.05 to 0.04. (maybe just 1 of the previous options and not both).

    Nerf Japanese Wonders, Japan got just the OPest wonders of the game with the coolest effects, that obviously need a nerf:

    Buddha: Make it dont affect the teammates anymore.

    Shogunate: Make it dont reduce the creation time of the units, and increase the cost of the Shogun to 1000 coin, and of the daiyimios to 750.

    Golden Pavillion: Make it dont give advanced arsenal upgrades anymore, I mean, this wonder can already boost the actual stats and not the original stats of the HP, the Ranged attach, The hand attack, or the speed of a unit. Thats more than enough...

    Make the card attack of the Ashigaru be now HP, this and the golden pavillion nerf are what the ashigaru needs.

    Nerf the naginata: this unit its just slightly OP if compared to a sowar or a hussar. Decrease its HP from 300 to 275.

     

    Other things:

    This are just other things that I THINK that need balance:

    Grenadier, Remove the HI classification. This unit isn't really that bad, but, its just that this unit is countered by what its supposed to counter... Add either one of Ranged Infantry or one of Light artillery.

    Ranged Infantry, RI got overnerfed in the previous patch, OK I accept it, people just massed RI and when in big numbers its way much harder to counter it with heavy cav, its just that, heavy cav now does incredibly vs RI, RI is countered by heavy cav better than HI counter heavy cav, and thats a bit unfair. What I suggest, its to increase the RR of Heavy cav and light inf by a 10%, but delete the negative bonuses RI got. I know that this will nerf Ranged HI and Light cav, but light cav already does incredible damage to heavy cav and Ranged HI its spammed more than RI...

    Outlaws: well, just see my Balancing some units... thread

    Well, I hope you liked my patch SUGGESTIONS, I will be waiting responses and of course more suggestion to my post, I worked quite much in this post :D:

    THANKS FOR READING!

  •  07-05-2008, 5:49 PM 717313 in reply to 717287
    English Shogun English Shogun is online. Last active: 09-08-2008, 11:18 AM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    good suggestions!! i think the iroquis need some sort of factory like building or card to get wood. like a card in age 4 that gives a trickle of 4wood or something of the sort. and they definitely need a boost to tomahawks. maybe more range or more attack. also, their infinite 500 of all resources shipment gives 15 normal crates. this is irritating. change to 3 huge crates, instead. means less clutter near the tc.

    i think you're overnerfing japan quite a bit. i agree on the consulate costs and the shogun/ diamyo costs (these things were just too cheap) but i dont think their wonders need a nerf. but definitely keep the AA improvements the golden pavillion has. i think if nags get nerfed, then the yabusame needs more hitpoints since 200 is very low for a unit that costs 220 resources. increase to 250 hitties maybe. actually that could be a bit much. keep the ashi attack card but decrease the effect of diamyos and shoguns to 5%. the shrined are too good early game and i agree with your suggestion about them but they need to stay as they are now in late game. maybe increase the shrine age4 improvement so it would make them as they are now, if you gave them the starting nerf.

    grens definitely need to be classed as light artillery, its a wonder they aren't already. actually could be because they are human soldiers. hmm ah well.

    flying crows need to start with 2 more range so they have 32 in age 5.

    good post ivan! well thought-out ideas too.


    U.S English is NOT a language!!

    English is a language.



    Mandem:

    Personally I don't get too concerned with getting a counter wrong when I see an otto barracks.
  •  07-05-2008, 5:55 PM 717316 in reply to 717313
    Иван Грозный Иван Грозный is not online. Last active: 07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    Actually, Yabusames need more a nerf than a boost, however I think they are fine, I mean, Japan needs a culverin...

    . And no I am not overnerfing Japan, Japan its just too OP if compared to the other civs and need a really big nerf.

    and 5% effect its just too low... shoguns and daimios need to mantain the 10%...

    And if, the AA upgrades of the Golden pavillion and the Japs ashigaru attack wont be changed, ashigarus will have like 45 attack in colonial. Thats pretty much OP, thats why I suggested those 2 changes.

  •  07-05-2008, 6:02 PM 717319 in reply to 717316
    English Shogun English Shogun is online. Last active: 09-08-2008, 11:18 AM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    why do you think yabusames need a nerf? they counter artillery effectively and cavalry fairly well but they cost ALOT of resources and are the only decent cannon counter japan has got. flaming arrows need a 2x against cannons if you nerf yabus.

    i thought the AA upgrades could only be obtained in fortress age... hmm you're right if they could be gotten in colonial. if they are in colonial they need to be unobtainable until fortress age. and why do the diamyos and shogun need to maintain the 10%? it seems alot, especially when it increases the units current stats, and not its base stats. if the age 2 ashi card gave them the hitpoint boost, and the age 3 one gave them the attack boost and an extra against cav, would that make them less op in colonial? it would keep them strong and worth their cost in later ages.  


    U.S English is NOT a language!!

    English is a language.



    Mandem:

    Personally I don't get too concerned with getting a counter wrong when I see an otto barracks.
  •  07-05-2008, 6:12 PM 717323 in reply to 717319
    Иван Грозный Иван Грозный is not online. Last active: 07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    actually, Flaming arrows already get x2.0 against artillery in when they research 1 of their techs...

    And yabusames, well, they got 18 range, 1.5 ROF, 50% RR, a 3.5 bonus against cavalry, and 8 to artillery... If you combine yabusames with yumis, you will get an incredible combo Stick out tongue.

    And lol, isnt it better to just delete em?

    Golden pavillion already makes a quite decent effect...

    And why shogun and daiymio need to mantain 10%? simple, because they affect just a little area of units, and not all the units you got, unlike the golden pavillion... And they die quite fast in battle, since every time that your opponent sees a dayimio or shogun or anything that gives aura, it will attack it first...

  •  07-05-2008, 6:32 PM 717331 in reply to 717323
    English Shogun English Shogun is online. Last active: 09-08-2008, 11:18 AM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    yes but the yabusame really is alot of resources.

    and good point about the shogun and diamyos, i agree with you.

    but flaming arrows get 1.5x artillery, unless it was changed in the last patch, but i dont think it was.

    i still reckon my idea about the cards being rearrenged a bit is a good one. im off to bed now so i cant debate anymore.


    U.S English is NOT a language!!

    English is a language.



    Mandem:

    Personally I don't get too concerned with getting a counter wrong when I see an otto barracks.
  •  07-05-2008, 7:10 PM 717339 in reply to 717331
    Иван Грозный Иван Грозный is not online. Last active: 07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    The yabusame doesnt costs really that much...

    Its main problem, its that it costs a lot of coin and food, but its quite cost effective...

    Anyways, maybe it is 1.5 in the flaming arrow, maybe I was just confusing...

     

  •  07-05-2008, 7:32 PM 717348 in reply to 717339
    firstaim firstaim is not online. Last active: 08/25/2008, 10:52 PM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance

    british have a crazy eco in team game

    it should be nerfed a little

     


    top 100 players are mainly german is because people used german are experts, not german OP.

    funny post before 2 years
  •  07-05-2008, 7:43 PM 717352 in reply to 717348
    Daddy Daddy is not online. Last active: 09-08-2008, 9:54 AM
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    Subject: Re: My "Idea" of balance
    You want rifle riders nerfed (the attack nerf is better imo), and the civ sioux overall get boosted. Sounds good. What about those tashunke prowlers?

    ES_MrMilo:
    so make an account make that you like
    Whatchu smokin?
  •  07-05-2008, 8:05 PM 717367 in reply to 717352
    Иван Грозный Иван Грозный is not online. Last active: 07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
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